Pack Positions
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2020-11-20 04:46:19I fully agree with the current system and with respect to the above comments Pierre. The thing with safety is to keep it as simple as possible. I would however add that the SO should have a different colour as the Marshall and lettering to identify with.- 2020-11-20 04:46:19I fully agree with the current system and with respect to the above comments Pierre. The thing with safety is to keep it as simple as possible. I would however add that the SO should have a different colour as the Marshall and lettering to identify with.
- 2020-11-20 04:46:19I fully agree with the current system and with respect to the above comments Pierre. The thing with safety is to keep it as simple as possible. I would however add that the SO should have a different colour as the Marshall and lettering to identify with.
2020-11-04 08:43:26"If the RC had been wearing a reflective, you would have been even more confused" Not sure I agree with the statement. I said "Without thinking I was planning to slot in behind the last reflective jackets" i.e. I would have slotted in behind the RC. The RC was the only one remaining in the pack, the dispatched marshals were already passed the RC.....
FWIW I see some chapters actually have the designation in big clear text on the back. ROAD CAPTAIN, MARSHAL, SAFETY OFFICER etc....
As I said if it isn't broke don't fix it :-)
2020-11-02 16:51:27The costs and logisticss is completely secondary to the avoidance of confusion that you have already experienced.
If the RC had been wearing a reflective, you would have been even more confused.
Some chapters do have the RC in a seperate reflective, you can even buy them on the HOG website.
I dont think adding new colours and things for people to remember is going to present a significant value to the system.
But as always, lets table it at the Q&A and lets see what the rest of the guys think.- 2020-10-30 14:05:39Thank you for the detailed explanation. The reason why I mentioned this is on one of my rides I was returning to the marshal pack. Without thinking I was planning to slot in behind the last reflective jackets, but to my horror the RC had just dispatched the two marshals in the pack and I smartly joined ahead of the RC. Quite embarrassing.....
I fully understand the issue of costs and logic of not using high visibility vests for RC and pack lead, but certain people need all the help to avoid my silly mistake, but as they say if it’s not broke don’t fix it ....
- 2020-10-30 13:50:31The reasons those two positions dont wear the reflectives are as follows:
when a returning Marshal approaches, its VERY confusing to have a whole stack of reflectives in front of you.
Marshals have jumped into the Pack assuming that the Pack Leader with a reflective was the last Marshal and they would slot in immediately behind.
You can just imagine what that would do to the new riders who are traditionally right behind the Pack Leader.
The second part is a Pack rider should not be in the habit of following someone in a reflective.
This would only be needed in a split pack situation where a Marshal would take up a temp pack lead position to rejoin the pack.
So if there is some shuffling and the Pack rider is aiming to follow a reflective, the rider might not know which reflective to follow and next thing the whole pack is following a marshal to deployment position. The Pack will follow the bike in front of them, they are not required to understand the mechanics and actions of the Marshals.
The point of the Pack Leader is to remove that completely from the Pack riders, the Pack Leader manages the spacing and timing to ensure a clear seperation between Marshals and the Pack, this is so that the Marshals can return to their positions safely.
The RC is also not a Marshal and the lack of reflective makes it clear to see his position and everyone behind him is a Marshal. The Back Pack of Marshals would not be able to differentiate between the RC and the Marshals. The Marshals themselves would not be clear on who in front of them is a Marshal and who is the RC. The lack of reflective makes this differentiation very clear.
If a retuning Marshal botched his return and ended up in front of the RC, noone whould know which is which.
Different coloured reflectives also become a logistical nightmare to manage.
My feeling is that the BB, SO and Photographer are the only ones that warrant a different colour.
And the main reson is that they engage and interact with the pack during a ride and they need to be seen as a unique contributors to what is happening.
The BB in blue is a specific designation that is supposed to stop with a rider that is experiencing trouble.
The photographer bib is to make sure the Pack can aknowledge that the colour is not a marshal and is not performaing any Marshal Duty. We are trying to remove as much confusion as possible which is why the Photographer doesnt wear a Marshal Jacket.
- 2020-10-30 08:13:54I think it might be worth mentioning the high visibility jackets. Who wears them and what the significance is of the various colours used e.g. marshals vs. photographer vs. SO etc....
FWIW I believe the RC and the pack leader should wear high vis jackets, don't ask why :-)
- 2020-11-20 04:46:19I fully agree with the current system and with respect to the above comments Pierre. The thing with safety is to keep it as simple as possible. I would however add that the SO should have a different colour as the Marshall and lettering to identify with.
- 2020-11-20 04:46:19I fully agree with the current system and with respect to the above comments Pierre. The thing with safety is to keep it as simple as possible. I would however add that the SO should have a different colour as the Marshall and lettering to identify with.
- 2020-11-20 04:46:19I fully agree with the current system and with respect to the above comments Pierre. The thing with safety is to keep it as simple as possible. I would however add that the SO should have a different colour as the Marshall and lettering to identify with.
- 2020-11-04 08:43:26"If the RC had been wearing a reflective, you would have been even more confused" Not sure I agree with the statement. I said "Without thinking I was planning to slot in behind the last reflective jackets" i.e. I would have slotted in behind the RC. The RC was the only one remaining in the pack, the dispatched marshals were already passed the RC..... FWIW I see some chapters actually have the designation in big clear text on the back. ROAD CAPTAIN, MARSHAL, SAFETY OFFICER etc.... As I said if it isn't broke don't fix it :-)
- 2020-11-02 16:51:27The costs and logisticss is completely secondary to the avoidance of confusion that you have already experienced. If the RC had been wearing a reflective, you would have been even more confused. Some chapters do have the RC in a seperate reflective, you can even buy them on the HOG website. I dont think adding new colours and things for people to remember is going to present a significant value to the system. But as always, lets table it at the Q&A and lets see what the rest of the guys think.
- 2020-10-30 14:05:39Thank you for the detailed explanation. The reason why I mentioned this is on one of my rides I was returning to the marshal pack. Without thinking I was planning to slot in behind the last reflective jackets, but to my horror the RC had just dispatched the two marshals in the pack and I smartly joined ahead of the RC. Quite embarrassing..... I fully understand the issue of costs and logic of not using high visibility vests for RC and pack lead, but certain people need all the help to avoid my silly mistake, but as they say if it’s not broke don’t fix it ....
- 2020-10-30 13:50:31The reasons those two positions dont wear the reflectives are as follows: when a returning Marshal approaches, its VERY confusing to have a whole stack of reflectives in front of you. Marshals have jumped into the Pack assuming that the Pack Leader with a reflective was the last Marshal and they would slot in immediately behind. You can just imagine what that would do to the new riders who are traditionally right behind the Pack Leader. The second part is a Pack rider should not be in the habit of following someone in a reflective. This would only be needed in a split pack situation where a Marshal would take up a temp pack lead position to rejoin the pack. So if there is some shuffling and the Pack rider is aiming to follow a reflective, the rider might not know which reflective to follow and next thing the whole pack is following a marshal to deployment position. The Pack will follow the bike in front of them, they are not required to understand the mechanics and actions of the Marshals. The point of the Pack Leader is to remove that completely from the Pack riders, the Pack Leader manages the spacing and timing to ensure a clear seperation between Marshals and the Pack, this is so that the Marshals can return to their positions safely. The RC is also not a Marshal and the lack of reflective makes it clear to see his position and everyone behind him is a Marshal. The Back Pack of Marshals would not be able to differentiate between the RC and the Marshals. The Marshals themselves would not be clear on who in front of them is a Marshal and who is the RC. The lack of reflective makes this differentiation very clear. If a retuning Marshal botched his return and ended up in front of the RC, noone whould know which is which. Different coloured reflectives also become a logistical nightmare to manage. My feeling is that the BB, SO and Photographer are the only ones that warrant a different colour. And the main reson is that they engage and interact with the pack during a ride and they need to be seen as a unique contributors to what is happening. The BB in blue is a specific designation that is supposed to stop with a rider that is experiencing trouble. The photographer bib is to make sure the Pack can aknowledge that the colour is not a marshal and is not performaing any Marshal Duty. We are trying to remove as much confusion as possible which is why the Photographer doesnt wear a Marshal Jacket.
- 2020-10-30 08:13:54I think it might be worth mentioning the high visibility jackets. Who wears them and what the significance is of the various colours used e.g. marshals vs. photographer vs. SO etc.... FWIW I believe the RC and the pack leader should wear high vis jackets, don't ask why :-)
